Curse

Alleji · Mar 09, 2008, 04:28 AM // 04:28

HAY GUYZ LETS COMPARE STARCRAFT TO GUILD WARS!

Starcraft > GW because I paid less for SC and I'm enjoying it more because blizzard didn't break their game with imba shit in their half-baked expansions.

It also has better replayability.

Discuss.

draxynnic · Mar 09, 2008, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

...and give more to players who have the TIME as well as the SKILL and that's really fair.

Is it? If I've spent 1000 hours playing and you've spent 10000, do you really need to have a r10 Ursan instead of a r5 Ursan?

I have no problem with having to earn vanity items, as long as the means for doing so isn't too repetitive and boring (sorry, doing the same quest or zone over and over again is boring. For me at least. I'd rather go and do some other zone or mission, or maybe do it with another character or even another build, but doing the same thing over and over again with 'the most efficient' build just isn't something I enjoy.)

When it comes to grinding for mechanical benefit...

A lot of people talk about grind as being "character advancement" and therefor, somehow, that "character advancement" somehow means "fun" and therefor grind=fun. This is an equation I really don't see. My sense of fun comes from two parts: First is the sense of achievement. The first time I do something, there's the sense of achievement. Doing the same thing the same way fifteen billion times to reach some arbitrary endpoint goal? Not fun.

The second, which grind directly gets in the way of, is that while I prefer PvE over PvP, I like playing with builds. A large part of my fun from Guild Wars comes from experimenting with various build concepts and seeing how they go. Now, the ability to freely rebuild is one big help in this, but the other side of it is that this means I don't concentrate on a single character - I have one of each class, and while I have some I prefer over others my most played character doesn't have much more than double the experience of the least. Anything that drags out the maximum level far enough is essentially a barrier to being able to try out a build to its full potential.

Vanity armour is nice to have, but I've earned mine through collecting gold and materials while working on completing every quest in the game and trying out new builds (and turning in the occasional book) rather than repeating the same area over and over again hoping for a particular item to drop or just to build up reputation - with or without certain quests active. (And as I've said before - any game which encourages you to leave quests unfinished for farming purposes like that... has a problem.)

Now, there may be a compromise point in there somewhere - I have mentioned, for instance, that I'd rather have a longer experience treadmill than the titles engine gored we have now, since experience doesn't dictate (at least, not as much) what you do to get it. But the gripping hand, in my mind, is that the people who pride themselves on their ability to grind have plenty of games they can play that suits that style - WoW chief among them. People like me who don't, however, are much more limited in choice - and I don't see any reason why we should get nothing while the grinders get yet another WoW-clone which is may simply be destined to fail when put in direct competition with the giant.

Savio · Mar 09, 2008, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

HAY GUYZ LETS COMPARE STARCRAFT TO GUILD WARS!

Starcraft > GW because I paid less for SC and I'm enjoying it more because blizzard didn't break their game with imba shit in their half-baked expansions.

It also has better replayability.

Discuss.

As a PvE Zerg player with over 2000 hours' worth of experience, I was totally turned off from SC when they increased the cost of Spawning Pools. Why does PvP have to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO everything up?

Tarun · Mar 09, 2008, 06:01 AM // 06:01

What does WoW have that GW could benefit from?

Auction House
Professions - Enchanting (make weapons glow and have a special damage modifier. Glowing weapons are just cool, seriously), Fishing (you can relax and chat with friends), Cooking (make food to heal and other FUN foods too), Leatherworking (make armor), Skinning, Mining, Jewelcrafting (use rings and necklaces, which should be common for all MMOs now-a-days. These were basics in Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights), Alchemy (make potions and other fun stuff), Blacksmithing (make your own weapons/armor!), Herbalism, Engineering (make bombs and more great gizmos like fireworks, mechnical critters and even mounts), Tailoring, First Aid (bandaids to heal and ways to remove conditions) and more coming. This really adds a lot to it, both for the economy and player relations.
Bigger storage - banks with MULTIPLE slots.
Guild Storage - share items with the guild and everything is logged.
Better guild organization. More than just Leader, Officers and Members. You can also set permissions for every group such as allowing all members to recruit, etc.
More bag sizes for your inventory on your character(s).
Mail system - very useful to message friends and to transfer items.
Mounts - they're just fun and make it feel more realistic than zoning/mapping (though zoning is still nice).
Jumping - just makes it feel more real. No one likes trying to go to an area in Guild Wars that is half of a normal step (appx 3 inches) and having to go around to get to the spot you just tried to reach where any normal person could easily step up to.
Swimming - need I say more?
The ability to explore areas without zoning (more fluid, realistic movements). I'm not fond of losing some buffs such as the Armor of Salvation buff after being in a zone for under 30 minutes and proceeding through the game.
Seeing equipment in towns/outposts. You can show your sword/shield/mace/bow/staff/etc just by pressing z to take your weapons out/put them away.
Character voices - type /joke and actually hear a joke. /laugh and hear your laugh. Minor but still nice.
Potions - How can you have an RPG and not have potions for health and mana?
Option to use more than 8 skills. You can put whatever you like to use in the skillbars, be it skills, profession/crafting stuff, potions, mounts, you name it.
THREAT - the tank/warrior attacks the enemy and generates a threat level which keeps the enemy focused on him and him alone. A monk is not meant to be a tank, nor an ele or any other squishy class. Warriors have high armor for a reason, to take the enemies focus and keep it not to let the enemies wail on their teammates.

That's all I can think of for now, but they'd all be nice enhancements to GW.

Edit: Another thing I really loved about WoW was being out exploring or doing a quest and you could team up with other people and do the quest together that way. Or if you came across one (or more) of the enemy faction, you could PvP right there. That's real PvP.

I highly enjoyed WoW (I played on a free, high rate/15x exp server) but even after I hit level 70 and got all my gear, there was still plenty to do thanks to crafting, 40 man raids and lots of what I mentioned above.

Redfeather1975 · Mar 09, 2008, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Most of the people I've known who think that GW should offer a lot more for people willing to spend more time, have a permanent ass print in their chair in front of their PC.

I think there's good reason to design a game so that people won't feel rewarded for wasting their lives in front of the screen. Games should be about fun, but not about spending as much time for as long as possible in them.

Savio · Mar 09, 2008, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

Potions - How can you have an RPG and not have potions for health and mana?
Option to use more than 8 skills. You can put whatever you like to use in the skillbars, be it skills, profession/crafting stuff, potions, mounts, you name it.

Some of us enjoy games where you have to think a little bit. Potions and unlimited skills are the opposite of what GW was made for.

Master Knightfall · Mar 09, 2008, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Knightfall
...and give more to players who have the TIME as well as the SKILL and that's really fair.

Is it? If I've spent 1000 hours playing and you've spent 10000, do you really need to have a r10 Ursan instead of a r5 Ursan?

Yup sure do that shows I put in the time to be MORE efficient than you are. I have a better quality character build than you do (R10 to your Rless) and more than likely better SKILLED than you are since SKILL = TIME PLAYED + INTELLIGENCE. <grin>

As GW2 will present a persistant world things will need to be harder and harder and require more time an effort just like the titles and PVE Only skills do now. Those of us who put in the TIME are now REWARED for that time, but, of course these are NOT REQUIRED Skills or titles, but, they do enhance the CHARACTER of the Player and his characters who have accomplished the more important ones that allow hiim/me/whoever to get to places and play there that others cannot or couldn't before. <grin> Not all titles are beneficial, not all PVE only skills are beneficial, but, there are enough of them to make some characters/players pretty POWERFUL over others and that's what's fair about the game now and in the future with GW2 as well. <grin>

Lord Sojar · Mar 09, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Thank you so much for proving my earlier point everyone. You have shown how truly intelligent Riverside can be.

BlackSephir · Mar 09, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Some of us enjoy games where you have to think a little bit. Potions and unlimited skills are the opposite of what GW was made for.

Yeah, sad thing is, this guy thinks GW would 'benefit' from potions and shitload of skills on skillbar.

Master Knightfall · Mar 09, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Not a chitload of skills on the skillbar, but, the ability to LOAD ANY skill onto the skillbar at any time. I never liked I was limited to 8 skills for a whole mission or through a whole zone not even knowing what I was up against. Even in the fantasy world the adventures can call upon ANY of their SKILLS at ANY time during their quest. I'd rather they use the DnD method and have us rest during the adventure or mission and be able to rejuv our skills as we use them up. DnD still has the best and most fun method of adventuring.

isamu kurosawa · Mar 09, 2008, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Not a chitload of skills on the skillbar, but, the ability to LOAD ANY skill onto the skillbar at any time. I never liked I was limited to 8 skills for a whole mission or through a whole zone not even knowing what I was up against. Even in the fantasy world the adventures can call upon ANY of their SKILLS at ANY time during their quest. I'd rather they use the DnD method and have us rest during the adventure or mission and be able to rejuv our skills as we use them up. DnD still has the best and most fun method of adventuring.

But that is one of the main selling points of GW. Why buy the game if you don't like that?

Rocky Raccoon · Mar 09, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Not a chitload of skills on the skillbar, but, the ability to LOAD ANY skill onto the skillbar at any time. I never liked I was limited to 8 skills for a whole mission or through a whole zone not even knowing what I was up against. Even in the fantasy world the adventures can call upon ANY of their SKILLS at ANY time during their quest. I'd rather they use the DnD method and have us rest during the adventure or mission and be able to rejuv our skills as we use them up. DnD still has the best and most fun method of adventuring.

Having only 8 skills means you have to think about what you will encounter on the quest or mission and set up your skills accordingly. If you fail the first time you learn what is needed and add those skills applicable to that area. I much rather have to use my brain and think than have everything available all the time.

Taurucis · Mar 09, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

[*]Potions - How can you have an RPG and not have potions for health and mana?

No Potion Wars please

One growing problem in a lot of MMOs is that potions are becoming even stronger than healers. Taking damage? Forget the healer, drink a potion. Drink two at once. And if you're good at making potions, you can just sit down and make healing potions and make a fortune.

Why does everyone compare GW and WoW? I've played both, and they're only minimally similar. We might as well compare the Might and Magic series with WoW, because they're both role-playing games in persistant worlds. And... both with outdated graphics.

~ Dan ~ · Mar 09, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

One growing problem in a lot of MMOs is that potions are becoming even stronger than healers. Taking damage? Forget the healer, drink a potion. Drink two at once. And if you're good at making potions, you can just sit down and make healing potions and make a fortune.

Growing problem eh? Atleast MMOs are going in the right direction. If i can heal myself better than any team-mate, great! I'm fedup with relying on retards.

Taurucis · Mar 09, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

What I'm trying to say is that potions shouldn't be the best and only way to heal yourself, eliminating the need for healers. If potions were implemented in GW, it would mean monks and healing rits would become absolutely unwanted, people would just buy potions.

There's a WoW-ripoff MMO called Last Chaos, apparently they're calling it Potion Chaos because success in that game is determined by how many potions you can chug in two seconds.

Tarun · Mar 09, 2008, 06:11 PM // 18:11

I've played Last Chaos and it's not that bad using potions.

I completely agree with dan-the-noob, why should I risk my life be relying on someone who may have no clue what they're doing, when I'm the tank and meant to keep people alive? It makes it much nicer if you enjoy soloing the world in exploration and fighting/leveling.

Heck, even with potions in WoW, if you do raids you still need to have healers to do a lot of the raids. You could have 15k buffed health and be fighting Archimonde or Illidan and you still need at least two priests and druids healing you. Archi alone can hit for ~5-6k so heals need to be flowing.

Bryant Again · Mar 09, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Potions and other healing consumables are on a cooldown timer. They don't want fights to be won based off of potion duty.

HawkofStorms · Mar 09, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-the-noob

Growing problem eh? Atleast MMOs are going in the right direction. If i can heal myself better than any team-mate, great! I'm fedup with relying on retards.

Yeah... I mean to hell with a multiplayer game where you have to have cooperation with your teammates
/sarcasm

draxynnic · Mar 09, 2008, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Yup sure do that shows I put in the time to be MORE efficient than you are. I have a better quality character build than you do (R10 to your Rless) and more than likely better SKILLED than you are since SKILL = TIME PLAYED + INTELLIGENCE. <grin>

Incorrect equation. Skill = Time played x Average amount learned per arbitrary time unit + Natural ability would be far more accurate. How much do you as a player really learn from Ursanwaying the six ciphers for the fiftieth time?

And so, with all that "skill", you feel that you also need mechanical benefits as a crutch? The pre-titles system did allow better players to shine - they were able to make better use of what the even playing field allowed, rather than simply having to spend all their time preparing to have fun rather than having fun. In my mind, that shows more skill and accomplishment than simply being able to go and grind more advancement points until you can brute-force the opposition.

Quote:

As GW2 will present a persistant world things will need to be harder and harder and require more time an effort just like the titles and PVE Only skills do now. Those of us who put in the TIME are now REWARED for that time, but, of course these are NOT REQUIRED Skills or titles, but, they do enhance the CHARACTER of the Player and his characters who have accomplished the more important ones that allow hiim/me/whoever to get to places and play there that others cannot or couldn't before. <grin> Not all titles are beneficial, not all PVE only skills are beneficial, but, there are enough of them to make some characters/players pretty POWERFUL over others and that's what's fair about the game now and in the future with GW2 as well. <grin>

You call that fair? By the Six Gods! How does having to spend uncounted hours in grinding repetitive play so you can Ursanway an elite area fair?

There are dozens of games on the market that cater for the way you like to play. At the risk of sounding like a cliche, why don't you go play one of those and leave mine alone?

Sefk · Mar 09, 2008, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Well, if he likes to grind, he should play one of those free to pay grind playing game instead of whinning around.